Plot Pole - Idea

[ToejaM]

It seems trolls like to bury any kind of discussion for what ever reason and ideas get lost in these threads if they are not in the OP so I'll repost it here.

 

vbawol said this:

 

 

When you die you are a new player and because of this you must make it back to your base with some tools to reclaim your land. When you die it should come at a cost and that cost is what makes your life even matter. 

 

 

I was trying to work out why this didn't sit well with me and I almost posted that I completely agree with it. As I do agree that dying should be a punishment, however the problem is to reclaim the land you have to remove it and replace it and this requires destroying it completely if you have died yourself.

 

The issue is, if you connected it all to the plot pole it would easily be abused. Glitching is still easy to do due to Arma limitations and there is still one very easy way to do it and no doubt other ways thanks to the wonderful engine that is Arma 2. If ownership was linked solely to the plot pole with no security, people would replace it and then remove the entire base. Theres a fine line between balance, realism and gameplay here.

 

As a server who had base building before it was cool in Epoch (its cooler now than before  ;)).. the best feature I have seen for this is that when you placed the item, it gave you a code, this code was simply the unique ID code inside the database, you then got an option on each buildable to enter this code to remove it but it was around 15 digits long.

 

This was enough of a ballache with only one level of building allowed, as it snapped all buildables to the floor.. so with Epoch, this is unreasonable to expect from players with a base of many floors.

 

Someone (kikyou2 - not sure if he even still runs a server) modified this to a much shorter code and allowed players to change the code if they were:

 

1) Object owner - Like what you have now, if they died this option disappeared and they needed the code

or

2) Had the original 15 or 4 digit code.

 

This works but is not ideal due to the sheer amount of objects, it puts removal into the hands of players and its as secure as the player wants it to be.

 

Suggestions for codes on bases:

 

1)

You already have the code to create safes, this would work fine as long as players could change the code but changing these codes would be monotonous and remembering 100s of different codes, even written down would require an architects plan so really would need a universal code.

 

2)

Even better would be if they could set a code when they were about to build so that they didn't have to keep changing it while building or writing down 100's of different codes as above.

 

3)

What I think would work best.

 

When you place the plot pole, it gives you a removal code. This for security could just be kept at a long 15 digit code and unchangeable unless via the database by an admin.

 

You implemented the area base maintenance option, an extra option could be for setting all codes within the area to XXXX. So once building is done players can use this to unify their base for making adjustments themselves.

 

Alternatively, the buildables around the area would seek this plot pole and use its unique ID as the code needed for removal.

 

Punishment

If the player dies, to access this pole they need the code again and what ever financial punishment you wish to inflict on them.

 

Why a financial punishment? Because it means they can go out and loot and play the game, rather than playing a crafting simulator or playing mummies and addies inside their 'houses'. It means that the risk is perpetually dying if they cannot meet the 'cost of dying' therefore cannot change their base, if they've already got a wealth together then they already play the game!

 

You could maybe make it a unique item that cannot be stored, something that has to be bought from a trader and transported back, this will stop hoarding of death tokens if you want people to go out and play. I'm not sure if this is even possible though.

 

As a server host

I get the need for punishment for dying and making people not take risks but the current system just isn't friendly to players nor admins, as many things as possible need to be in the hands of the players to look after. Right now, we are babysitting players and I say that in the nicest way possible but it requires teams of 10+ just to keep a busy server running smoothly and removing base objects is a huge chore for us, we do it daily because people screw up or just don't like what they've created. If we refuse, they'll go elsewhere where others will help them. Of course, we've never refused as we believe players should be able to remove objects themselves without losing their entire base and we'll continue to help them until a via player controlled alternative is in place.

 

Players literally live the game, they put a lot of time and effort into it and for the time it takes to put a base together, players are not willing to let it be taken from them easily and they want as much control over their own possessions as possible.

 

Finding the perfect balance will always be difficult but I really don't think I'm wrong with this post, again as someone who gets a lot of requests from players and sees what they want, I think I'm in one of the best positions to offer advice.

[Infinity]

On my server I tell people to build what they need to build and then remove the plot pole after building and put it back in their safe. Unfortunately most people don't listen and end up paying the price for it ..

 

I do think that the best solution would be to have buildables tied to your PlayerUID, and possibly with your suggestion to add a penalty after a player has died.

[ToejaM]

The problem with that method is, other players can carry a plot pole to the base and build into it, which is fine.. but as you can't remove the objects, its a ballache. So I tell all players to secure it inside an extra locked room :)

[Infinity]

Then .. then ... well .. lets add a fricking 3 or 4 digit code to the plot pole! More codes to remember; yay!

 

But in all seriousness ..

 

Quote; "an extra option could be for setting all codes within the area to XXXX"

 

^Dat I love!

[ToejaM]

Well at the moment a locked door between you and the pole works well as a key coded pole :P

 

On the note of more codes to remember, I think there should be a way to set the code on a door when you place the lock but that requires more coding and the current system is efficient for this so thats hardly priority! Admins can however edit these in the database and it works great, you unlock one door with that code and all doors with the same code are unlock able to so makes it easy to travel around your base.

 

The problem is, for all the people you can trust, there are an equal amount you cannot trust which is a shame but people will take what they can and it can be game breaking. I'm all for punishments and such but in an offline environment for a persistant world I feel it just doesn't work without some security.

 

Should people be able to take over bases? Absolutely but I think you should have to catch the owner with their pants down while they are online, a la: unlocked safes. Could possibly have "unlocked" poles which would let you reset the codes in the area and the punishment for poor kit security would be you need to fight for your base back. Though I cant see that being popular but then it should be a rare occurance that someone kills you in your base while your plot pole is "open" if that all makes sense.

 

I realise that offering suggestions is but 10% of the work here and if I could code, I really would!

[Uro]

I like Toejam's suggestion of marrying a plot pole with a code, it would make the whole issue of plot poles a lot easier to manage from a player and admin perspective.

 

Player:

1. Place a plot pole, get a code.
2. Any time they wish to expand thier base they'd have to enter the code. (once per login / use of plot pole, similar to the way safes/locks work)
3. If they die they'd just have to survive and make it back to thier base, enter code, profit.

 

Admin:

1. No longer has to spend time deleting objects for players.
2. Would make abandoned base deletion easier!
3. Can concentrate on other server issues, scripting, modding etc.
4. Gets some time to play Epoch and enjoy all the stuff they've added for thier players!

If the dev's could work such a thing into Epoch it would be win/win all round.

 

 

Copied from other thread as it's more relevant here. :)

[ToejaM]

Friendly bumpasaurus.

[Panadur]

Hi there,

 

I think death and loss of the gear can already be a hard punishment on a server with modifies prices. On our server, that is run by kikyou2 and me, the plot pole and almost every buildable has a 4 digit code that allows you to remove it. The owner of the plotpole is identified by the playeruid, and is allowed to build on the plot. Every other person (and those guys with ArmaX playeruid) that wants to build on that plot needs to enable basebuilding on the plot by the 4-digit code.

[mjrhzrd]

Plot Poles are broken on the server I play on.  They see 0  building objects,  and cannot be maintained. yet my plot pole is in the middle of a 4 story  structure.  OR were in the center as my building is almost completely gone, leaving safes and tents in mid-air.   No answer from the Devs on it.   We are Not the only ones having a problem...

[cen]

it only shows items that have a damage greater than 0.10 so if the damage is not set to 0.11 or higher it won't show in the plot pole as needing maintenance. This is easy to fix either server side, or by modifying the SQL routine that runs daily.